Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System

[Mark Romans <romans@pacbell.net>]

Well Bruce:  Your gonna love this.  Apparently I was causing my own problem.
Originally when I had a stalling problem I set the stall saver parms the
same % higher as I had raised the idle speed.  Shortly therafter I found the
hwy spark was being enabled and was causing the main problem.  I never reset
the stall saver parms back to stock.  I just did that and now the ecm isn't
retarding the spark at 725 rpm's it's back to stock which is 400 rpm's.
There are about 5 parms that are included in the stall saver section and I
just set them all back to stock and I can slip the clutch with the park
brake set without stalling the engine.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System


>
>| Can you replace the module with the msd with the electronic distributor
>and
>| still have electronic timing control with the ecm?
>
>No, you can triggger a MSD with an electronic dissy, but the dissy needs to
>have Vac/mech..
>Grumpy
>
>| Subject: RE: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>|
>|
>| >Like bruce said try the module.  In the dizzy  For some reason the
>modules
>| >seem to fry in the dissy with msd and all the time with cranes..
>acltully
>| >with the msd you can rip out the module and hook the msd straight to the
>| >pickup.  Msd also offers a conversion cap to make large dizzys ext coil.
>| >Mike Rolica
>| >Meridian Magnesium Products
>| >Strathroy, Ont
>| >Ext. 260
>| >
>| >
>| > -----Original Message-----
>| > From: Mark Romans [SMTP:romans@pacbell.net]
>| > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:39 AM
>| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >
>| > I've got a MSD6AL, with Accell coil in cap. MSD box is hidden under
>| >the
>| > battery box.
>| > It stalled on me 3x today.  All at idle or on deceleration.
>| >Restarts fine.
>| > Mark
>| > -----Original Message-----
>| > From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>| > Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 9:36 PM
>| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >
>| >
>| > >Ahh, get a MSD low resistance center bushing, and a good
>| >aftermarket coil.
>| > >MSD makes a kit for using a remote coil.
>| > >  Better yet get a late model small cap distributor, and use a good
>| >coil
>| > >with that.
>| > >Then might even use a good spark box.
>| > >  I know not oem looking then, but worth it, IMHO.
>| > >Using a remote coil late dissy, I have 230K miles on the original
>| > >module........
>| > >Grmpy
>| > >
>| > >
>| > >
>| > >| Sorry Bruce:  Forgot to answer, large cap dizzy!
>| > >| Mark
>| > >| -----Original Message-----
>| > >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| > >| To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>| > >| Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:51 PM
>| > >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| > >|
>| > >|
>| > >| >
>| > >| >It usually makes the engine surge wildly, when it applies, on
>| >modified
>| > >| >engines, even mild surge on stockers.
>| > >| >  The mechanics are opening IAC, and adding fuel.  If bad enough
>| >I think
>| > >it
>| > >| >might move the timing.
>| > >| >Grumpy
>| > >| >  You might just for grins try uping the BL to a higher number
>| >for the
>| > >idle
>| > >| >stall thing.
>| > >| >
>| > >| >
>| > >| >| I just rechecked and 700 rpm's for both GDF files, stall1 and
>| >stall2.
>| > >I
>| > >| >| wonder if that has something to do with stall saver rpm's?
>| > >| >| Next question, what specifically does stall saver do?
>| > >| >| Mark
>| > >| >
>| > >| >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| > >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| > >| >| >| Hey Bruce: If I disconnect my est connector, should I see
>| >the
>| > >advance
>| > >| >at
>| > >| >| >| 2500 rpm?
>| > >| >| >Yes
>| > >| >| >| I am wondering if this is why I have the idle problem.
>| >Remember
>| > how
>| > >| >the
>| > >| >| >| signal goes to zero advance?
>| > >| >| >As I recall it did that during the stall and it was right at
>| >400 rpm,
>| > >| >which
>| > >| >| >is when the ecm drops out of bypass, and it would read 0 as I
>| > >understand
>| > >| >| >things.
>| > >| >| >The only failure I've personnally had or diagnosed with a gm
>| >module
>| > is
>| > >| >hot
>| > >| >| >stalling, and progressing to where the engine needs to cool
>| >before it
>| > >| >would
>| > >| >| >restart.
>| > >| >| >BTW, is yours a large or small cap Dissy
>| > >| >| >Bruce
>| > >| >| >| Mark
>| > >| >| >| From: John T. Martin <gmman@eskimo.com>
>| > >| >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| > >| >| >| >My  $.02
>| > >| >| >| >That is a normal condition, also a test for P/U coil
>| >signal
>| > >strength.
>| > >| >| The
>| > >| >| >| >advance is triggered by the P/U coil signal amplitude, not
>| >RPM. It
>| > >is
>| > >| >a
>| > >| >| >| back
>| > >| >| >| >up as I understand it, but a good test if you suspect a
>| >weak
>| > magnet
>| > >| in
>| > >| >| >the
>| > >| >| >| >dist. We had a run of K engines with shaft problems a
>| >while back
>| > >and
>| > >| >in
>| > >| >| >| >bypass (est disconnected), 2500 rpm the advance was not
>| >triggered.
>| > >| >Also
>| > >| >| >the
>| > >| >| >| >weak pick-up signal affects idle quality.
>| > >| >| >| >Subject: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| > >| >| >| >A question:
>| > >| >| >| >With timing control connector disconnected (ie. setting
>| >timing on
>| > a
>| > >| >| >| >165-based TPI motor), timing should sit still, which it
>| >does for
>| > me
>| > >| at
>| > >| >| >low
>| > >| >| >| >RPM. However, when I idle it on up to say 2000 or 2500, it
>| >seems
>| > to
>| > >| >| >advance
>| > >| >| >| >like 12 degrees or so, instantaneously, and hold up there
>| >until I
>| > >| idle
>| > >| >| it
>| > >| >| >| >back down. Then it jump-returns to the previous value.
>| >This is all
>| > >| >| >| >timing-light based. Any thoughts on what is being seen?
>| >There's
>| > >about
>| > >| >a
>| > >| >| >1-3
>| > >| >| >| >degree drift on idle-up, probably from timing chain
>| >stretch, but
>| > >| >that's
>| > >| >| >not
>| > >| >| >| >huge.
>| > >| >| >| >Anyways, fishing for thoughts. It's not problematic, just
>| >would
>| > >like
>| > >| >to
>| > >| >| >| >understand what's happening and why.
>| > >| >| >| >Sincerely,
>| > >| >| >| >Craig
>| > >| >
>| > >| >
>| > >|
>| > >
>| >
>|
>