Re: Long, and related to EFI ( was Re: PCV valve for TPI)

[WEG1192@aol.com]

Wow,

I haven't gotten chewed out like this since I caught the backyard on fire 
playing with matches. But, even then, I got to defend myself (didn't help) so 
here goes.

First of all, I haven't made a dime selling this stuff. I have probably sunk 
more money into EPROM burners, erasers, scantools, etc. than I've made in 
sales. Second, my profit and overhead that I charge is nothing compared to 
Force-EFI, TPIS, Howell, FIS, and the list goes on. I make at most $300 total 
profit and overhead, and if one piece of equipment that I buy on Ebay to 
resell is defective, there go my profits. And there is a lot more to making 
money than just listening to other experts better than you in your 
profession. I have researched where to buy the parts at the least expensive 
source, I have spent hours sandblasting and Gunking parts so they are fit for 
reselling, and I have spent hours and hours answering Emails about what I can 
and can't do. One thing I have learned after having my own consulting 
engineering business for the last 10 years is that making money is not a sin. 
The only, and I mean only way to continue doing something you enjoy doing is 
to make money doing it. I have four kids to feed, and since my other business 
failed due to highly "professional" architects not paying their bills, I 
thought I would try something else that does pay. It is interesting that 
doing business over the internet pays on time, every time, since Ebay has 
somehow convinced the world that paying a stranger like me over $1000 up 
front for a turnkey stock MAP TPI system is an acceptable thing to do. So the 
bottom line is people are putting faith in my honesty when they send me a 
check from 2000 miles away. By the way, if you've ever added up all the costs 
to put together a TPI system complete with harness (I build my own, takes me 
8 hours minimum since I solder every connection, not to mention all the time 
I spent researching the sensor connectors on the Packard.pios.com site), ECM, 
MEMCAL, brand new Ford injectors, gasket set, MAP, O2, TPS, speed, coolant, 
MAT, IAC motor, knock, fuel pump, air filter, fuel rail fittings, aluminum 
parts, etc. you'll see that they add up to about $900 my cost. So when I can 
only sell the system for $1100- $1200, I'm not making money at all for info. 
I am only getting paid for my labor involved in putting this together.

As for passing myself off as an expert, I am an expert to 90% of the 
population of this country. I also know more than most GM technicians I speak 
to, at least the ones at the GM dealers in my town. Not a single one knew 
about the field service mode and that the check engine light can be used as 
an indicator of proper closed loop O2 operation. Most of the Emails I get are 
from people that have no interest in getting involved to the level that I 
have. They simply want a fuel injection system with as little money as 
possible. Then again, there are others that were in my shoes one year ago not 
knowing anything about fuel injection except that Holley makes one for less 
than $700. If they want to get very involved, I tell them about this site. I 
also went to a lot of trouble to write a very detailed FAQ website about GM 
fuel injection. Its basic knowledge to you guys, but for most, its very 
informative.

What I am trying to do is sell GM (only GM) fuel injection to markets that 
don't already have fuel injection from the factory. For ex., I sell a kit for 
the Jeep Wagoneer for less than what Howell sells theirs for. And believe me, 
they are not making a lot of money at $995. So when I sell mine for $800, I 
make even less. As a matter of fact, when I consider how much time I have to 
invest in making a harness, finding the least expensive parts on Ebay, 
cleaning parts, fixing broken parts, testing used sensors and IAC motors, 
installing helicoil inserts to save a TPI manifold, etc. the information is 
practically free. I am basing this Jeep system on a concept that I actually 
figured out on my own before learning of this forum, which brings me to my 
next rebuttal.

Trying to give something back to this forum is like being a doctoral student 
and asking, "What can I possibly research or offer an original thought about 
that hasn't already been done?" Well, last week, I finally offered something 
I thought was original and would help you guys out on this forum. My idea of 
converting a non-computer distributor to an ECM controlled distributor, 
although nothing mind shattering, is the basis of my entire business. The 
underlying theme to that conversion is that more than likely, any magnetic 
pickup in any manufacturers distributor can trigger the GM TPI ignition 
module. I took that discovery and made a business from it. I only recently 
realized that the same conversion might be helpful when tuning an ECM for 
spark timing. I haven't used it myself successfully yet so I can't say if it 
is valuable or not. But I didn't sit on it and keep it to myself. And I was 
going to write up my whole Jeep project experience for including on the GMECM 
website at the request of Steve Ravet. I was going to also give an overview 
of how a newbie should approach the site to get the most from it, since only 
a newbie knows what a newbie doesn't know. Also, I thoroughly read Howell's 
website and they don't appear to be using a stock distributor on their Jeep 
system. I think they are just picking the RPM off the tach side of the coil 
and letting the ignition timing remain under the stock mechanical controls. 
So I did come up with something original at the time. I stumbled on Jason 
Weirs site first and he also had discovered how to use the stock magnetic 
pickup, but he never wrote about it other than in the archives. And since I 
am sure Howell and other commercial businesses are using this site, I have 
now given them my idea.

As for being honest, there is a thread right now on this forum about the "Jet 
Performance Scam." I have tried to base a business on letting the owner of 
the vehicle help with tuning his own vehicle. You said yourself that it may 
be a novel idea. I could never make a profit if I flew to someone's home 2000 
miles away, hooked up my laptop to their ALDL, and whipped out my EPROM 
burner and eraser and said "Lets do it." At the same time, I have not offered 
to "guess" at what chip changes are required to get the calibration right by 
knowing the cam specs, compression ratio, exhaust diameter, etc. I have 
offered to rent my scantool and diagnostic software, just as TPIS does, and 
offer my assistance in tuning a chip to make a clients engine run right. I 
believe that a client will only be satisfied with the chip if he did the 
tuning himself and saw the numbers fall in line with his efforts. Keep in 
mind that there are different levels of satisfaction in tuning a chip with 
Bruce Plecan's chip being the ultimate in a perfect tune and my Jeep Wagoneer 
probably being the other extreme. Both of our cars can get the groceries home 
during a rainstorm. My point is that not everyone that needs fuel injection 
is driving a black GN or wants to. My Jeep system has improved my gas mileage 
by about 2 MPG, so it was well worth it. What's more dishonest, selling a 
chip that you claim to have modified although you did nothing, or helping a 
fellow fuel injection beginner get a somewhat perfectly tuned chip (perfect 
is a relative term on this forum) for his engine for $300 (which includes the 
cost of the chip by the way)? I can guarantee that I spend at least $300 of 
time sitting in front of a computer analyzing a Datamaster file, figuring out 
where to add or subtract fuel, and then typing in new numbers in a Tunercat 
window in 20 different calibrations and then doing this 5 to 6 times or more 
if necessary. If anything, I am introducing new minds to this forum since if 
any of my clients want to spend the hours and hours each day reading the 
posts to this forum, they are welcome to. Most just want to stop buying 
gasoline at $1.50 a gallon and pay me to help them find a way to do that. 
Ultimately, my obligation ends if I give the client his money back if the 
chip can't be tuned satisfactorily, and that could happen. We'll just have to 
see. Also, if a client has desires to get race quality results from a tune, I 
suggest he buy Accel DFI or some other programmable ECM since I think he will 
become frustrated with the GM EPROM tuning. If he insists on using a GM ECM, 
then I will tell him where to buy Tunercat, EPROM burners, erasers, 
Datamaster, etc. and then tell him to sign up for this list and read it for 6 
months.

As for putting in the time, I bought the Holley 2Di system to start with and 
got a bunch of silly answers from Holley to some legitimate questions, like, 
"Why are brand new injectors leaking?", and "Why are my throttle plates stuck 
closed so that I can't get the throttle open without stomping on the gas 
pedal? They are only stuck when the engine is running so it's not a linkage 
problem". I returned that system as soon as I realized all the bugs weren't 
worked out. By the same token, I can start a business and do things that 
aren't really proven also. As long as I return a clients money, no harm done. 
But my other business has taught me that you never turn down work. Doing 
something new and unproven is the only way to learn and grow. If I can't 
accomplish what I say I can, I return the money and say, "Thanks for the 
opportunity to learn how not to do something." That's why I went to 
engineering school, so that I wouldn't have to replace water pumps the rest 
of my life. I have been a shadetree mechanic for over 25 years, having 
rebuilt everything from garden tillers to Porsche 944 Turbo engines. I also 
have a mechanical engineering degree from GA Tech, so I've put in the time in 
other ways. Granted I don't have the software background that a lot of the 
guys on this forum have, but I hope I can add new information from another 
point of view. Some of the best ideas ever are so simple its ridiculous.

There is nothing more frustrating than owning a car that no one can fix. I 
had a 280ZX Turbo once that overheated and ran lean (I think, turbo was 
glowing orange after a mild drive, looked like Chernobyl under the hood at 
night). No one, not me, the dealer, or the local garage with the "diagnostic 
machine" could fix that car. I finally was forced to trade it in. For this 
and many other reasons, I don't trust dealerships. I usually know more than 
the dealership technicians. I realize that you may be the exception to this 
rule and you have me when it comes to fuel injection, but dealerships bring 
it on themselves. I have never had a good experience with a dealer's shop. I 
always ask questions they can't or don't want to answer. And I've had way too 
many repairs do nothing but make my wallet lighter.

The question I had about the PCV valve was for my own TPI system. I was not 
"disguising it" as a question to help me sell fuel injection. And apparently, 
it benefited the list since a fellow member thought they were all the same 
too. I bought a new PCV valve for a 1990 TPI Camaro and it helped with the 
problem so Bruce was right. Asking questions like this surprisingly helps 
everyone. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does. If I had just figured it 
out on my own, the other guy would never had known that all PCV valves are 
not alike. I am amazed at how many followup posts a sometimes seemly simple 
question generates. If there is a consensus on this forum that I am wasting 
everyone's time, I'll start calling the dealership instead and bothering the 
technicians there. You certainly can't depend on the keyboard robots at 
Autozone anymore. If it ain't in the "puter", it don't exist.

One of the great things about this forum is that it generally gets you past 
the bullcrap put out by the commercial businesses trying to protect their 
business. The art of chip "guessing" is apparently a perfect example. Unless 
you have the knowledge that I have gained by being a member of this list, you 
are at the mercy of the chip "tuners" like TPIS, Hypertech, Jet, ADS, etc. If 
anything, my tuning procedure will at least give my client an honest product 
for the little money invested. Maybe you hardcore tuners see this as a 
rip-off. But if I can get a guys MAP GM EFI system running with BLMs just 
under 128 and his gas mileage improved by a few points, I consider it worth 
$300 for my unlimited assistance. For racing, I refer to the experts or help 
the client get involved like I am.

You make it sound like I am making a million dollars building GM EFI systems. 
At best, I am making less than $16,000 a year gross profit and thats if 
everything goes well. If I sell one kit a week for $300 net profit, and 
multiply that by 52 weeks a year, I will make $15,600. And when you consider 
that I have to bust my ass to make that $300, the info that I learn here is 
free. For a TBI system on a Jeep, I have to machine two adapter plates, 
machine the 2 bbl to 4 bbl adapter to clear the TBI throttle butterflies, 
build a custom harness to locate the ignition module near the stock module, 
rebuild and test both TBI injectors (hopefully they are still working 
otherwise I will have to buy two more from Lindertech), test the IAC motor, 
test the coolant and TPS sensors, figure out a way to make the stock cruise 
control work, etc. So you could say the tuning service is pro bono (free, 
have to do it as part of the overall setup). Tuning chips is such a small 
part of selling used fuel injection systems that it is practically free when 
sold as a part of a turnkey system, so don't think my business relies solely 
on this site. Granted, it is a necessary part and I do it to try and make EFI 
affordable to people stuck with carbs, but I don't consider myself exploiting 
this site. Just because someone calls himself a business doesn't mean they 
are in heaven and sitting pretty. I never had to work so hard until I started 
my own business. I sacrificed everything I owned to make it a sucess for 
naught. Now, I have nothing except the satisfaction of knowing that I won't 
be 60 years old and wonder why I didn't take a chance at running my own 
business. If you knew that out of every 4 dollars your employer charges for 
your time, he gives you one of those dollars, and that's how he is able to 
buy that yacht on the Florida coast, you would try and make a business out of 
anything you could also. Had I known what I know now, I would have been a 
lawyer since no one appreciates the work that mechanical engineers do, esp. 
not architects. Have you ever called the maintenance shop in your office 
building just to say thanks for making my office comfortable. I doubt it. If 
anything, you called to complain about it being too hot or cold. What I am 
saying is that in general, no one appreciates us technical people. All the 
general public wants is for it to work. If you get some sort of personal 
satisfaction from doing a job well done, then more power to you. And since I 
enjoy tinkering with this stuff, I try to do a job well done not only for my 
clients, but myself as well. I certainly am not doing this to retire early.

I am certain that other "commercial" businesses use this site often. I tell 
my ECM suppliers about Ludis site all the time so they can figure out what 
the ECM is for and how much it is worth. Then again, if I see an ECM on Ebay, 
and I know that the Beretta 3.3 liter ECM is a 1227730 ECM, I take advantage 
of that knowledge.

To finish up, I think you are unjustified in criticizing me like this. If I 
made a mistake, it was getting too enthusiastic about this site. Apparently, 
you have to lay low to keep from pissing off the regulars. If anyone else has 
any ill will from me making a few bucks from my hobby, let me know and I'll 
find something else where I don't have to work so damn hard.

P.S.

I have two "ideas" about making TPI systems easier to install, but since I've 
been told to get lost, I'll just answer any inquiries off list. Thanks for 
the fun.
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